Talk:Young Justice

I'm not entirely sure this page needed to be created... This is a Gargoyles site afterall. We should ask ourselves why this page needs to exist here. Are we going to make pages on the GargWiki for every show Greg works on? I'm not saying it should be taken down, because it is only a page, it just seems silly. Just because there are similiar writers, voice actors, voice directors, etc. to Gargoyles should not entitle a show to a page here, in my humble opinion. Maybe if there were CLEAR references to Gargoyles, it wouldn't puzzle me so much. The Illuminati-The Light similarities are just that, they are not references to Gargoyles and shouldn't be listed as such. And if something like that warrants a page here, one must ask why Freakazoid and Darkwing Duck don't have pages here as they made CLEAR references to Gargoyles.

• Steps off soapbox* -- Matt 13:34, 30 November 2010 (CST)

I figure if Spectacular Spider-Man and W.I.T.C.H. can have pages here then there's no reason not to include Young Justice. Plus knowing Greg, there will be a ton of Gargoyles in-jokes once the series starts airing regularly. --Algernon 14:45, 30 November 2010 (CST)

While I would personally have preferred to wait and see what other "Gargoyles" references appear in the series, I've got no problem at all with this page being here. It's cool. And let's face it, this wiki already gives Greg Weisman very special treatment, something else I also have no problem with. --GregX 15:07, 30 November 2010 (CST)

I love special treatment!!! But I don't want you guys to feel obligated to do this sort of thing for every one of my shows. I don't at all mind having this page here, but I won't be upset if the consensus is it should go. No hurt feelings either way.--Gweisman 19:28, 30 November 2010 (CST)

Like I said before, I'm not suggesting we remove the page. My only concern is the precedent this page sets. If this page exists, then a page for everything Greg has worked on should exist. Do we create pages for anything that references Gargoyles or only when Greg was involved and it references Gargoyles or is Greg's involvement enough to warrant a page with no reference to Gargoyles neccesary? Personally, I feel that since this is a Gargoyles Wiki, it should have to have some sort of Gargoyles connection or reference. Look, we all love Greg and his work, but this isn't GregWiki, its GargWiki. Spectacular Spider-Man and W.I.T.C.H. deserve pages because they directly reference Gargoyles, Star Trek deserves a page because it was referenced in the Gargoyles Universe and the voice actor connection bears mentioning, Darkwing Duck and Freakazoid should have pages because of the references they've made to Gargoyles. But Young Justice has made no real references to Gargoyles that I'm aware of, so the only reason to include it here would be that there was a similiar crew working on the show... and that opens a huge floodgate because Greg and Jamie have worked on a ton of stuff. Because YJ is already up and likely to contain Gargoyles references down the road, I'm fine with leaving the page up, but I just think we (the editors here at GargWiki) need to set some sort of standard of what gets a page and what doesn't. I feel that the excitment over Greg's new series is moving people to create pages for no particular reason. -- Matt 21:36, 30 November 2010 (CST)

Matt, you're right. We should come up with a rule of some kind. For example, Max Steel doesn't get a page because, as far as I know, Max Steel had no Gargoyles references. But then, I didn't like the show enough to watch past one episode, so who knows. I am all for mentioning Darkwing because we had a pretty big ref there, and yes, Freakazoid. Personally, I think it's all good. --GregX 23:43, 30 November 2010 (CST)

Might be a little late in the conversation, but I'll just post my two cents in that I second having a page for any show or comic (etc) that has a clear-cut reference to Gargoyles, whether or not Greg personally worked on it. I will also admit that the thought of a "GregWiki" is indeed one appealing can of worms ;) --Pheon 21:04, 4 December 2010 (CST)

It may be considered overkill or too much work, but since the premiere and airing of The Spectacular Spider-Man, I kind of thought that Sister Wikias should be made like one for The Spectacular Spider-Man, one for W.I.T.C.H. and since now, one for Young Justice. Probably worth it or not, but just a suggestion. Antiyonder 17:31, 2 December 2010 (CST)

Well, we're not a wikia. While I wouldn't be opposed to expanding info on the other series Greg worked on, well... this is GargWiki and not GregWiki. Although, I would not be opposed to unofficially turning this into GregWiki. --GregX 18:08, 2 December 2010 (CST)

I know this'll probably sound a little hypocritical being the one who created this page but I'm not too crazy about taking the focus off Gargoyles. I can justify creating Spectacualar Spider-Man, Young Justice and the second season of W.I.T.C.H. pages on the grounds that Greg was a showrunner on all of them much like he was on Gargoyles making them spiritual siblings of a sort. That seems to me to be a far cry from something like The Batman, which Greg only wrote a few freelance scripts for. And even then I think any of Greg's non-garg shows should only get a page each, I certainly wouldn't want us to start doing character pages for Aqualad or Miss Martian.--Algernon 13:37, 3 December 2010 (CST)

Quite true. Although, I have to admit, lately I have been looking at the TFWiki for inspiration. --GregX 13:40, 3 December 2010 (CST)

I kinda already said that I didn't think the page was a good idea on the Community Portal, but since it's now up I guess it wouldn't hurt to wait and see if some Gargoyles references are forthcoming. If they aren't, then I think we should delete the page.

Now, if you are interested in a Young Justice wiki, I've been editing here for a couple of days. Needs works - they don't even have a page for Greg or Brandon - and I wouldn't mind if we linked the two wikis together. (There's also a Wikia for W.I.T.C.H., but I haven't edited there for some time.) -- Supermorff 15:43, 3 December 2010 (CST)

Wow. I just skimmed a few pages of the YJ wiki. TONS of inaccurate info there, based on "editors" making false assumptions and/or getting info from sources OTHER than the series itself. Feels like it could really benefit from a canon/not-canon philosophy like what we have here. Cuz, if something doesn't appear in the series or in the in-continuity YJ comic book -- it just flat out may not be so (no matter how many OTHER DC comics or how many interview seem to indicate it is). We're in a parallel universe and some things from the regular continuity will NOT be true of Earth-16. And as for interviews... well, without naming names, some of the people interviewed - even if they are involved in the series - don't know what they're talking about. And even when Brandon and I have been interviewed, we've been MISQUOTED more than once. (For example, some guy quoted us as saying that Miss Martian was Martian Manhunter's daughter. We NEVER said that. And it isn't true.) I realize that with only two episodes and no comics out so far, it may seem like there isn't much to fill the wiki with except speculation. But it seems to me that there was enough material in those two episodes to keep people busy until January -- just with accurate info. Of course, I'm not sure myself, why I'm writing this up here. Anyway, Supermorf, if that makes sense to you, you can pass the philosophy on to that wiki. I think the idea of having a YJ wiki is very exciting. But there's not much point if it's going to be loaded up with false (or frankly even coincidentally true) assumptions.--Gweisman 05:28, 4 December 2010 (CST)

Just as an example, for all you guys know, Miss Martian's ONLY power may be to change the color of her t-shirt. Anything else... is pure speculation. Some of the speculation may turn out to be right, but I can guarantee that some of what's currently up there now is absolutely wrong.--Gweisman 05:28, 4 December 2010 (CST)

Dude, you are preaching to the choir, and I will definitely try to pass it on. But I really have only been there a few days, and haven't yet spoken to any of the other editors, so I have no idea how they are likely to react.

Guys, on a related note, if we do end up deleting the YJ page here, can we keep the talk page? -- Supermorff 15:28, 4 December 2010 (CST)

We're not deleting the page. No worries. --GregX 19:38, 4 December 2010 (CST)

GregX> What does TFWiki do that looks good? Anything we could use? -- Supermorff 15:43, 3 December 2010 (CST)

I have to admit, I enjoy the rather sarcastic bent it takes sometimes. Well, all the time. --GregX 19:39, 4 December 2010 (CST)

Oh, I see, I thought you meant how they treated non-TF series. The sarcastic tone can be quite amusing, but when you want information about something you don't know about already it's just irritating. I'm not sure we could really use it here without changing the entire purpose of the wiki. -- Supermorff 04:50, 5 December 2010 (CST)

See, I never found it the slightest bit irritating. I've been thinking that if we bring that type of humor to the captions, we might attract people to the GargWiki. They'll come for the humor, stay for the content, and maybe check "Gargoyles" out. I know for a fact that this has happened with people who weren't Transformers fans, but TFWiki entertained them enough to check it out. --GregX 12:41, 6 December 2010 (CST)

I dunno. JMHO, but I find these "pimp" captions annoying. I don't particularly find them funny, and they feel a little desperate to me. Like we don't trust the material. --Gweisman 17:59, 6 December 2010 (CST) (Just my opinion. Not Greg-from-on-high.)

Hey, what you say goes, as far as I'm concerned. It was just an idea. Thanks for your input. :) --GregX 18:04, 6 December 2010 (CST)

I'm all for in-universe jokes but I gotta side with Greg on this one... that pimp caption was too much. DTaina 18:07, 6 December 2010 (CST)

"He can talk?"

Still seems like a coincidence to me. -- Supermorff 15:22, 8 December 2010 (CST)

Considering Mr. Weisman himself wrote the script for Independance Day, I doubt it.--Algernon 16:16, 8 December 2010 (CST)

Still seems like a coincidence. They have different emphasis and accomplish different things in their scenes. The Gargoyles line is spoken directly to Goliath and initiates the dialogue between them. The Young Justice line is spoken to Robin and Aqualad and serves to create even more tension between Superboy and Kid Flash. I'm not saying that it's not a specific reference to the Gargoyles quote, just that I don't think the evidence is overwhelming.

Also, the same line has been used in (off the top of my head) the first Shrek movie and the Simpsons episode where they parody Planet of the Apes, and probably much more besides. -- Supermorff 05:06, 9 December 2010 (CST)